Maybe it's a bit early to post this, but we are considering switching to a semi-symettric relay soon. It will be a big change, and we will completely rearrange our 1C structure, but I think it's worth it. We will be able to relay out exact shape and size, or we could TAB/CAB if we wish. It will be amazing. Basically we will be doing this:
1♣ - ?
1♦ - 0-7 HCP; Any Hand
1♥ - 8+ HCP; 5+M
1♠ - 8-13 HCP; 4432 or 4333
1NT - 8+ HCP; 5+m Unbalanced
2♣ - 8+ HCP; 5m332 or 6m322 or 5C+5M (TBD)
2♦ - 8+ HCP; 7+m or 6(+)m 5(+)M
2♥ - 5-7 HCP; 6+♥ with 3/5 top honors or 2/3 top honors
2♠ - 5-7 HCP; 6+♠ with 3/5 top honors or 2/3 top honors
2NT - 8+ HCP; 5-5+ Minors
3♣ - 12-16 HCP; (41)=4=4 (then 3♥ is 15-16 HCP, symettric with 3♦)
3♦ - 8-11 HCP; (41)=4=4 (then 3♠/3NT are Low/High shortness)
1♣ - 1♥ - 1♠ - ?
1NT - 8+ HCP; 5+M Unbalanced
2♣ - 8+ HCP; 5M332 or 6M322 or 5D+5M (TBD)
2♦ - 8+ HCP; 7+M or 6(+)M 5(+)m
2♥ - 14+ HCP; 4432/4333
2♠ - 17+ HCP; 4441 Any
2NT - 8+ HCP; 5-5+ Majors
3♣ - 12-16 HCP; 4=4=(14) (then 3♥ is 15-16 HCP, symettric with 3♦)
3♦ - 8-11 HCP; 4=4=(14) (then 3♠/3NT are Low/High shortness)
All 8+ HCP Hands will be able to be shown in a shape relay, or a TAB/CAB for the 5+ card suits. We are currently working on this, and as soon as more is developed I'll post more!
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Thats Sick!!!
ReplyDeleteYou might want to use Alan Truscott's symmetric relay notes as a starting point - they're on Dan Neill's site I think.
ReplyDeleteRemind me to always bid at least 3c or 3d against you after 1c - p - 1h! I think if you don't give partner help as to which major you have right away then preemption will be a huge pain. Responder when bidding 1h, near as I can tell, has either some single 5+M OR 4=4=(41) OR any 14+ 4432/4333 OR any 17+ 4x1 or both majors.
ReplyDeleteDavidC's bridge blog had a long series on bidding theory which I imagine you've probably read at http://dcrcbridge.blogspot.com/.
When I read that system and started thinking about strong club and relays one of the things I think about is what order you show things in, where the things to show are generally (in alphabetical order) controls, pattern, points, and suits. Relays generally cover them all, other bidding systems may not get them all (although in all systems if you only have a 1 bid or 2 bid hand you may not get everything in).
Traditional natural bidding sort of goes suits then points then pattern then controls.
Rexford bidding is natural but controls are 2nd or 3rd in the list.
Traditional strong club is sort of points then suit then controls (CAB/TAB), at least for unbalanced hands.
The relay above looks mostly points, pattern, suits, controls.
Something like traditional symmetric relay or transfer oriented symmetric relay goes points, suits, pattern, controls.
If you've announced to the table that it is your hand (points) and you are likely unbalanced (pattern) then preemption is even more strongly demanded. My meta rule with partner is we use our ambiguous suit bids if you haven't shown a suit yet. So over 1c-p-1h we could still do something like bid spades at any level (2 or 3 likely) to show either S+C or just D. That's going to lead to lots of guesses by all.
Also, symmetric is the correct spelling of the word meaning having symmetry, balance, etc. Are you purposefully using symettric for your system and is their any story/reason behind the alternate spelling?